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Page 1, Page 2 Content there fixed it for you | |} ---- Pointless being there is no point.. as in nothing to gain, nothing to lose. | |} ---- Not all gains and losses are material. The thrill of the hunt, the thrilling fear of being jumped, that heart pounding feeling when you've achieved victory by the barest margin, that crushing feeling of loss that spurs you on to be better, having people come to your call of aid and tromping the enemy, etc... That may be things you don't like, but that doesn't make them pointless, doesn't mean there wasn't anything gained or anything lost. Sure, material incentives and rewards are *cupcaking* awesome, but for people that like PvP just for the fun of the fight, Open World PvP isn't pointless. | |} ---- *highfives* Took the words out of my mouth! | |} ---- The thrill of being jumped... when I'm doing dailies??!? Only to revive 10 meters away. "but for people that like PvP just for the fun of the fight, Open World PvP isn't pointless." Feel free to sign up for Arena if you want to PvP... Unless you're talking about ganking lowbie noobs.. then I can see your disappointment | |} ---- the thrill of living in a warring environment. The trill of having to watch your back. The thrill of any activity potentially being dangerous. When you go into an Arena, you're going in prepared. In open world you're not. And to be honest, how do warring sides make any amount of sense when you can't even attack them? I mean there's mutual peace that would also happen on a pvp server, but it's one thing when peace is a player choice and another one when it's enforced by a mechanic. | |} ---- ---- Staying on that server is more than "open world pvp". Something that people like yourself and others that are so boxed into their own "omg dey just stubborn" mentality don't seem to get. As for Mirta, I'm sorry to see you and the exiles go. I have been pretty absent myself, the last time I logged in was 2 weeks ago and even though the guild is active the server is quiet. As a server we have consistently tried to rally community spirit, to be faced by complete negativity (such as above from evade) on the forums, on reddit, on random webpages... everywhere. Even though I don't play, I still try to get people to play on Lumi, or to give Wildstar a go. Why? Because I love the game. But months and months of hard work, attempts to communicate with CRB for helping us advertise events (to be met with silence, thanks lads) attempts to try and make people see that it isn't just doom and gloom on "the dead server" (other people's labels, not luminaians) doesn't work. It's tiring, it's stressful, it's unrewarding. We are met with horrible negative replies no matter how much we try to make people see that the game can be fun here, and that having two populated servers is healthier for the game than one more populated with a fragmented community. How my guild keeps going, regardless of me giving my blessing to move if they need to, is because we want pvp to live in wildstar. But myself, as well as others, know from experience of fighting this "battle" against such negativity from every direction, has really put me off moving to Jabbit. Why? Because it has shown me just how vile some people can actually be lol.. At least Luminai (dominion at least now exile is gone) is a warm, close community who look out for each other. I know I am seen as a horrible person for making my guild stay on Luminai, because my opinions are quite strong when it comes to transferring, and also because "I ruined Jabbit's glory" when it came to pvp events or w/e. But ultimately the people who stayed where we are, is because we love pvp, we love the game and we want it to do well. So please, for once, people on the PvE server, instead of telling us to transfer and being rude to us constantly for being somewhere less populated and asking for you to maybe join in sometimes, maybe roll an alt there and see why we stay? Also, Vanelope is an absolute star for holding the ship for me whilst I've been away from Wildstar <3 Praise the loppe. More importantly, Mirta I hope you find a game you enjoy and have a great time, try to destress and stop worrying :) <3 | |} ---- Actually this wasn't the spark that cause the fire. On Luminai we had 2 major guilds on each side, Codex and Eugenic when the free transfer where there they moved to the PvE server because they could get good players on the PvE server and the players on the PvP could transfer over for free. So they had 2 pools to gather players from. Because they moved within a week a few guilds followed and the server became more empty so other players got scared and also moved and it started to snowball. There have been several surveys here on the forum and most if not all of the players that moved are saying they would consider going back to the PvP server if the population is better. If the free transfer was 2 ways from the start I wonder what would have happened. | |} ---- She went back to Guild Wars 2 and started the Unknowns there as well, in 2 weeks she had 40+ members... i think we recruited about 10 or so new players on Luminai in the last 3 months. So a game where people say doesn't have any end content is doing better after 2 years then Wildstar in half a year. I've also joined their guild since my roots are also with GW2 and in every aspect it looks more healthy... Maybe they really need to change their business model? | |} ---- If you don't like that thrill, don't join a PvP server. Like I said, just because it's something you don't enjoy doesn't make it pointless in general, it just makes it pointless to you. Arena isn't the same thing at all of what I was talking about. And neither is "ganking lowbie noobs". I don't like PvP servers. BUT I'm not going to discount the feelings, needs and wants of those that do like them. And they are more than just the people that go out and gank lowbie noobs. | |} ---- Pretty much this. I think people can be a bit histrionic about things like this and Carbine's role in it, but I'm pretty sure, at this point, that if there wasn't a PVP server population issue in the past, there certainly is now. I also don't imagine to know how long it would take to implement fixes needed to balance the servers, but the fact that it needs to be done isn't in question. There are too many refugees from Warhound and Luminae on Entity and Jabbit who aren't getting to experience the things they want to do. Hell, even if the server populations were fine, that's a more pressing issue. People on PVP servers should be engaging in world PVP. Population is symptomatic and aggravatory to the problem, but certainly not causal. A high population on Luminai that didn't ever engage in world PVP would be a problem (though perhaps not as severe as not having enough people to even bother) just as certainly as a lower population consistently engaged in world PVP across the board would mitigate the population problem. At present, Luminae especially has a population issue, a faction disparity, and a battered reputation. The solutions to all of those are going to be extensive changes to game systems that I'm sure Carbine will now get to now that a lot of the PVE systems complaints are being addressed. I look forward to the topic being brought up at Bazeleel's townhall. PVP servers and world PVP shall unquestionably be on the agenda. I may not think everyone is entirely reasonable on the subject, but to say people should just stop complaining about the dearth of world PVP and subsequent abandonment of the PVP servers and accept it seems a major issue. World PVP is a piece of the game, one it's impossible to engage in at present. Some people want to run around the world hunting players while they wait for a queue to pop. Some people want to gank and be ganked during their dailies. Others may personally scoff at that, but from the more generalist perspective on the game I tend to adopt, I hear enough complaints about the world being empty and dailies being a boring grind with no variety to definitely think some people might like world PVP if they'd try it. | |} ---- ---- I'm assuming that the free transfer option will hold people over for now, at least temporarily. Most people who found the server lacking didn't straight up abandon the game (if they did, they likely already weren't happy about the state of PVP anyway, which has been a far more voluminous complaint). The fact that people still care so much about it certainly suggests that true-blood Luminae people aren't going to stay on Jabbit if popular solutions are implemented. Essentially, people can kind of slum it on Jabbit until Carbine gets their fixes in place, which are a bit extensive. Raids, for their part, can't be done cross server because the architecture to put them on the Group Finder isn't in place. They're just now getting Shiphands on the list (which was a bit more of a pressing problem, with all the complaints of a lack of casual PVE content drowning out the PVP discussion until they were announced). Raids would be an even larger issue, since then they'd have to make the raids able to be queued for if they were using the existing architecture. I'm not in any way convinced that will lead to anything but issues when people are simply queueing into GA without speaking a word and pancaking on trash. If they are going to use a different armature (my suggestion) by enabling cross-server circles or even guilds that can then walk into a raid directly, those will have to be modified from scratch. I still think you'll get a lot of complaints of poaching from server to server, but that's not a real change from how it works now. Most important, though, are PVP changes. Those need to happen first, I think. Merging the CX and raid populations to any degree may help, but few are going back to Luminae or Warhound until the PVP situation is in better shape. | |} ---- ---- That's what I'm telling you, though. You said: You can easily do dungeons cross-server because of the Group Finder, dungeons are set up to function thus. Raids are not. You could add them to the group finder to take advantage of those processes, but that carries its own detriments. Or, you can install a new armature, which may (or may not, I can't say for certain what is or isn't simple to do) take some time to convert them to be able to do. Regardless, the social organizing tools (raids, circles, and even chat channels) which can organize such things effectively don't exist across servers. If the rationale for the exodus from Luminae is a viable population to absorb into a raid guild, that says, to me, that it was the social tools that really drew the raiding population. I don't think the situation would be directly improved by allowing people to petition for raid inclusion via an account whisper based on that criteria. I can only apologize if I jumped a few fences too many in my rationale, there, I keep track of a pretty broad range of issues and posts and I forget that not everyone is involved in the months of conversations I'm involved in here. Instanced PVP, for example, isn't what I meant by PVP improvements. Certainly, if you're following things like the recent rolling shooting war between Eclips and Evade, it might seem that way. However, there are a lot of reasons given for PVP failures that transcend that, many of which directly relate to Luminae's population, which have been brought up since launch. A sample of the issues I'm aware of include: -Sabotage reduced healing across the board in response to player feedback, but to a disagreeable degree. That leaves healers out in the wind in PVP at all levels. -Rewards across the board for PVP are low. I've heard (but couldn't get confirmation from the people arguing it) that killing a player in the open world awards less than a regular mob in terms of experience, prestige, etc (I've also heard that it provides nothing, but couldn't confirm that either). -World PVP is fragmented, and the isolation of people on housing plots coupled with lack of reasons to go back into the open world post-50 leaves the PVP leveling experience, meant to be dangerous, as fairly tame. -The gear gap with PVP gear is vast, and there are rather reasonable arguments that ask for new class balancing. This might seem like "arena PVP issues", but it translates directly into the open world when an 1800 geared warrior can mow down a fresh 50 like he wasn't even there while doing dailies. If there's literally no chance of overcoming that gap, world PVP just becomes a hindrance to everything you do outside an instance. -Mechanics in certain groups, group sizes, and makeups are not balanced against each other well. This may also seem like an arena issue, and can be difficult to balance out regardless. However, a group of 2, 3, and 5 people can just as easily take advantage of those mechanics in the open world. These are just the ones I can think of off the top of my head (PVP also doesn't really make up the largest volume of feedback), but it's also, in the end, a matter of faith. If people don't think PVP is decently balanced and available, even if it is, it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy when people don't PVP. A bit like when everyone said dungeons were incredibly difficult and not worth doing, therefore a large segment of this game's population avoided doing them and emptied out their own dungeon queue, if people are told and believe that PVP at all levels and in practice is just bad and not worth doing, then nobody is going to do it. Providing means to raid with it still available in the open world on a PVP server may help to some degree, but complaints about the entire system of PVP (from its supporters and opponents both) are going to stop anyone from taking that plunge unless something is done to change its perception. Unfortunately, as much as it would be helpful to Luminae if people didn't associate all PVP complaints with issues they may encounter on the PVP server, Luminae has a big PVP on their server's name. So when someone says, "PVP is broken", even if that player hasn't read the topics I mentioned, he rolls on Jabbit if he rolls at all. There just isn't a silver-bullet answer here, a combination of things across a breadth of issues need to be implemented before we can safely say people who want to PVP would be encouraged to roll on Luminae. Interconnectivity to reduce the reliance on your server's idiosyncratic population for raiding, in whatever form that takes, is a possible part of that, but I certainly wouldn't call it the most important. | |} ---- ---- ----